[Shiver Metimbers]

The "spark" was me objecting to Rapinoe et al. inserting their personal politics into what should be simply Sports, and doing so in a most egregiously inappropriate way:

Off-topic warning, can't keep quiet about this though.

Rapinoe, star of the US Women's Team currently playing in the Women's World Cup in France, has failed again to show proper respect and honor for the country that has done so much for her.  Joined by many of her teammates, no hand over heart nor singing of the national anthem before the game.

What a contrast with every other team on the planet, and especially host France.  Their team, every single one, and most of the fans sang La Marseillaise with gusto.

NFL lost my patronage years ago over this behavior, but at least those players and teams are private organizations.  THIS team, like the Olympic teams, is NOT. 
[EDIT:  on re-reading, I realize I left an incorrect impression. Neither Olympic athletes, nor national team soccer players are funded by taxpayer money. So, in that sense they are "private."  However, they are wearing US colors and represent this nation in an international Arena. In that sense they are very much not private.]

Fine, you don't respect me, right back at ya.  Will be rooting for the Frogs.

OK sorry, back to regularly scheduled paint-drying.

This was followed by a Straw-Man argument that back-handedly accused me of hypocritically "wrapping myself in the flag" and then hypocritically/improperly being "unhappy" about some fellow American "expressing their opinion" when America is "supposed to be about freedom from conformity."

I've never understood those who are proud to be an American but then are unhappy when other Americans express their differing opinions. I'm pretty sure our country is founded on freedom and liberty rather than conformity and unity of thought. I'm all for those who want to express their differing views (NFL players and Rapinoe), especially if they do it respectfully like Kaepernick. (I didn't watch Rapinoe during anthem, maybe her, too). That's the whole point of the American experiment, right?

So going back to your old posts, this once seems to be important since you created a new topic/thread for it. I think I understand your perspective. All Americans should respect the flag and national anthem what they stand for. Please let me know if I'm wrong here.

This is a very broad topic with lots of potential for tangents and rabbit holes. To simply respond to your comments here, I'll start with my assumption that you were not happy with. I assumed that expecting those representing our country to conform to the standard forms of national pride and respect meant that you had national pride. I'm not sure how we got to the point where this is the argument. I'm sorry I made an assumption about your level of national pride. I think (another assumption coming, but I have to start somewhere) that you read something in my words that I did not intend. I only wanted to say that it appeared you have a respect for the flag and the national anthem and simplified that to "proud to be an American". You clearly read more into it that I was trying to say. For the record, I'm proud to be an American. I'm not proud of everything America has done, but I doubt anyone is. 

So on to my only point on this topic. The first amendment gives Americans the right to protest. How we protest can come in many forms. I think that Kaepernick and Rapinoe and many others choosing not to stand and/or sing the national anthem is a very American thing to do. They are protesting their government/society and the founding fathers wrote that protesting is a right into the Constitution because they knew it was a needed thing for a society to survive. You are correct that these professional athletes have been given a lot by our country. That shouldn't take away their right to protest if they are unhappy with something. I think (again, correct me if I'm making a wrong assumption here) that you find the timing of their protestations to be the problem. That is, they shouldn't do it in front of crowds at a sporting event when they are representing their country. My view is that if we start telling people when they get their Constitutional rights and when they don't get them, then they aren't really rights.

Mmm, I think you've still missed my perspective (and my point) entirely. It is NOT that all Americans should 'respect the flag and national anthem [and] what they stand for' at all. I don't, at least not much these days, since my nation and especially its elected officials don't... but there is a time for all things under heaven, and THAT should be respected.

For the record, and as an aside, I am not particularly proud to be an American - how could I be given the country created after the War of Northern Aggression and all that logically followed to the present? - nor am I particularly proud even to be a Texan, given how craven and duplicitous and corrupt its people have allowed its government, even down to the local level, to become.

To return to our muttons... One should not be careless about one's actions and their effects. I am wholly committed to the importance of recognizing our God-given Rights, and that includes Free Speech. Everyone's Free Speech, not just those with whom one happens to agree. I am also wholly committed to the wisdom of founding society on the Rule of Law, not the rule of lawmen who can and do re-define what 'law' and 'rights' are at whim.

First, with regards to Rapinoe (and later the rest of the US women's team): given a large international audience in a World Cup setting, wearing US colors provided for her, and representing this country *as a country, in its entirety*, my objection was *entirely* that the time and place taken for disrespect and intentional division was ungracious, ungrateful, crass, bad form, repugnant - all deleterious enough - but societally suicidal in its aim and effect.

I actually pray and work for improvement of this American society, and object to those destroying any chance of success in that endeavor. Lots of potential here, more than anywhere else I can name, and to see that goal intentionally undermined gets my goat.

Rapinoe's display did not increase anyone's freedom or improve prospects for anyone in this country: that was neither its effect nor was that its intent, as far as I can tell. The effect, at any rate, was to further divide us - bad enough - but to weaken us with respect to The World's view of us as a whole - worse - and, worst of all, was done either knowing its basis was a lie, or out of fanaticism that refused to know easily available truth, i.e. willful ignorance. In either case, it merited scorn and approbation, which I expressed *as is my right.*

My free speech was just that: I am as free to object to her repugnancy, and to state my rejection of support for it, as she is to display it. You engaged wholeheartedly in applying a Double Standard by accusing me of 'offending against Free Speech' and 'abrogating' her rights by exercising my own merely because you agreed with her expression and disagreed with mine, not because I violated any bit of her right to free speech, and yet the latter was exactly the accusation and back-handed defense of her atrocious display.

THAT is precisely an example of someone applying 'Double Standards and Relativism.' It certainly IS a big topic, thus the thread: it is a practice now all-too-common, so common people give it no thought and do so unthinkingly, which spells the death of any society pretending to the Rule of Law.

Second, the entire premise of Kaepernick and Rapinoe and BLM crap is based on a lie, a hate-mongering divisive tribalizing gaslighting lie intended for a single purpose: tearing this society apart. That Rapinoe furthered said lie on a stage afforded her by the country she hates, wearing US colors, in short sh*tting where she ate, biting the hand that fed her, was a Bridge Too Far.

Reread my subsequent posts after the one you quoted. If I was unclear there or here, let me know, I hope I can clarify more fully.